The Bittersweet Paradox

18"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.
19"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
20"Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master ' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
21"But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. "

John 15:18-21

There's been a lot of talk of loving lately at a my Bible study and on my friend's blog. The above passage confuses me. I think I know what it refers to, but not completely. It seems as though certain segments of the Christian population use this passage as license to judge the world at large, and when they see the world "persecuting" them, they just use that as further proof that they're following God.

One thing seems somewhat inconsistent in this passage, and it's probably just because I've absorbed way too much Christian pop-culture. I hear shouted in my ear all the time that people should see the love of Christ through us, and that if all goes according to plan, they'll be "drawn" to Christianity through that influence alone. But, this passage seems to suggest differently. Granted, I'm not showcasing the many examples of Christ, in a single conversation, taking a sinner, showing them love, healing their infirmities and transforming them into one of his children.

If the world is supposed to hate and persecute us as it did Christ, but at the same time we're supposed to show them the love of Christ, how could they continue to hate and persecute us? These are legitimate questions I have...I promise I'm not just trying to point out inconsistencies in Scripture just to be doing it.

I do have an opinion on this...but it'll take a little bit to word it out of my brain into print.

Ok I guess I feel like you. That the verses can be taken in context that you can be judgemental and chalk it up this verse when people get mad~but are they acting on what Jesus said were the two greatest commandments.

I guess you need to ask what love is. Is love all chocalate feelings sprinkled with smiles and hugs...Or does sometime love have to be honest with people.

I think you have to love people and be honest...but you have to have their respect too. I think where people truly begin to dislike Christians...even those who do their best to act like Jesus...and even dislike Jesus...is John 3-16. You actually do have to believe in him. People want love and they want to recieve love, they just don't want to have to give something up for it and that's the rub.

I also think this verse has more to do with how other people are going to treat us. Not how we are to treat other people. The people who truly hated Jesus were religious leaders who didn't want to be told they were doing something wrong. And those who didn't want to give up what they had to follow him.

This is all kinds of rambling so...I'll wrap it up.

Ok yeah basicly some people want to recieve the love of Jesus...they just don't want to have to love Him back...that's where some people get mad at Christians.

How could they continue to hate and persecute us? When did hatred and persecution become rational?

Anonymous~Turn on the news when is hatred and persecution not on. You can love someone all you want, but when you do draw the line in the sand and say there's only one way inot Heaven and that's to love Jesus back...some people do get mad.

I guess I don't understand your question.

I know it's not inconsistent,since Scripture isn't inconsistent. I think what a lot of it boils down to is that when the world is convicted by God, it makes them uncomfortable and aware of the fact they should change when perhaps they don't want to. And so they try to discount whatever source they perceive the conviction to be stemming from, and so they decide to persecute it? Maybe....

I do have one example of this passage, I think. There was a girl I knew in college who was an amazing witness for Christ. Always loving to everyone, and never judgmental or hypocritical. But, the some of the non-Christian girls seeemed to dislike her without reason. The only reason I can think of for that is that they see something in her that isn't in them, and they may even want that something, but they know that that something would mean radical change in their lives.

More rambling...

Consider this - a thought spurred by perspectives in a few books I've read recently.

How greatly can love be expressed in cases where everyone is nice to us? It is in cases where people hate us, and we get to love them anyway, that His true Love is shown.

They WILL hate us and persecute us etc. It is in those things that Love proves itself. Like Paul witnessing to the households of those who put him in prison. They could see LOVE in Him, and they wanted it!

As usual, I could ramble. But that's the main thing I thought as I read this.